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22 PCB007 MAGAZINE I MAY 2019 substrate, you could do that in a very fine pro- file—certainly submicron—which is what we want. Yes, that may work. But how do you go from small scale to big-volume, high-reliability thermal cycling requirements that are required? Matties: It sounds like base material is on the path of evolution, and not revolution. Morgan: It has been all through its life, but ev- eryone is waiting for the revolution to come one day. Matties: As you're saying, though, it will take years to bring it to market in any mass scale. Morgan: Right, that works in mobile communi- cations and handsets; there has been a com- plete revolution there, but to bring that across the whole industry will be difficult. The au- tomotive sector requires zero defects and a 10-year life if not more. And it has very severe testing regimes to make that happen, so you have to bear that in mind always. And if we're talking about 5G IoT, the vehicle becomes a server on wheels. It has to have all of the at- tributes of a server with data integrity but on wheels. Some days, it's going to be in Finland at -30°C; other times, it's going to be in the Arizona desert at +50°C. Matties: I remember chatting with Mark Good- win from Ventec International Group about the R&D that a laminator needs to go through. To plan a product for the future, you have to be thinking five or six years out because it's such a slow process. Morgan: I'm sure a revolution will come eventu- ally. There are many ideas out there, but these novel technologies tend to find one application area where they work, and then they don't go anywhere else. Today, our mainstream volume is still the old technologies. There's nothing revolutionary at all; it has been an evolution. I'm sure that there will be something one day that tips the balance, but the market is not there yet by a long shot. There have also been a lot of investments around the world in treat- ing glass fabrics with resins and applying cop- per foil to them. To break out of that is going to be very hard. We're not talking a few mil- lion dollars; we're talking tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, so that's not something you do lightly. Matties: What piece of advice would you give to designers? Morgan: Talk to me or someone in the lami- nate business. Some people know this field, but there aren't too many as it is a very narrow discipline. We're giving seminars and trying to build up training sessions on this topic with Altium. I'm going to do some more with them as well. My paper at the ICT seminar is what I delivered to Altium to bring designers up to speed with where we are, explaining how ma- terials are developed and what things matter. My advice would be to take a materials course. Honestly, they could learn all of the informa- tion that they need to know to find their bear- ings in a half-day or one-day course. That's all it takes. Otherwise, they could spend a lifetime not understanding it. Johnson: Very good, Alun. Thank you for your time. Morgan: Any time, Nolan. It's my pleasure. Visit I-007eBooks.com to download The Printed Circuit Designer›s Guide to… Thermal Management with Insulated Metal Substrates written by Didier Mauve and Ian Mayoh from Ventec International Group as well as oth- er free, educational titles. PCB007 The automotive sector requires zero defects and a 10-year life if not more.

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