Issue link: https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1309864
36 PCB007 MAGAZINE I NOVEMBER 2020 interconnect. We'll delaminate the board and destroy it, and the via will still be connected. We knew it would be good. We've now been able to make structures that will fail and ones that are robust. This is, of course, similar to HDI development. WUS will have a significant advantage because we've seen where not to go with VeCS. Maybe Joan knew it would be this reliable, but I didn't know that it would be this reli- able. We didn't realize it would be perform- ing at least as well or better than through-hole. HDI vias stacked is potentially reliable because of the CTE mismatch between the via and the dielectric around it. There is the surface X/Y CTE expansion of a VeCS circuit on both sides of the slot and it is almost the same. That was surprising to me. I did not see that. There are pictures of that too. Matties: With this process, whose decision is it to incorporate this into their circuit design? Tourné: It's the OEM's, not the PCB fabricators'. The strategy is to convince the OEM and show them the benefits. In many cases, it's the HDI people that look at this technology and drive it, as HDI engineers are having a big say these days in PCB technology. Matties: What's the resistance that you find out there when you're talking to people about this? Is it the approval cycle? Tourné: It's the second source of manufactur- ing. It's new. How much track record do you have? Who's NextGIn? Those standard items when you start a new technology. It took five years before we started with microvias before we went into OEM manufacturing. Compared to this, microvias are much easier. Dickson: Happy has been the champion of mi- crovias since we were building products back in the early '90s. Even now, it's still not consid- ered an industry-standard technology. Compa- nies like Apple have embraced it and utilized it, but they consider their application of the HDI as IP. That's 25 years after the technolo- gy was really volume introduced to the indus- try. VeCS is already moving much quicker than that. The challenge now is that it takes a good six months to a year to understand how to de- sign this. Once people realize the benefits of what it can do, trying to move into that tech- nology, they're going to be substantially be- hind because it's going to be difficult to have experts in the design side leveraging it. Matties: Where does a company go if they want to integrate this into their products, and their design team isn't ready, or they don't have the knowledge to do this? Do you provide design services? How do they get started? Tourné: We're a small company. We offer design recommendations; we do part of the design as an example so they can pick that up and un- derstand how to use the technology. I'm a PCB designer from when I started in the industry, so I know a lot about design. I've worked with Allegro and Mentor and all these systems. Matties: Have you considered forming an alli- ance with the design bureau? Tourné: Not yet. The focus was very much on can we get the tools for VeCS into the main ma- jor CAD systems meaning Cadence, and Men- tor. That was the focus. People are designing with it. Mentor is stepping up now as a soft- ware house to demonstrate that they can do it. It takes a long time before we convince those