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18 PCB007 MAGAZINE I FEBRUARY 2022 places than there is here for these processes. From the point of view of technology or capa- bility, we're not really behind, but we haven't really implemented it and have allowed a lot of it to develop overseas. Matties: Who's driving the R&D? Is it coming out of Averatek or from OEMs? at's one of the big questions in the industry today is R&D generally. But for this specifically, who or what is driving it? Dunn: It's from a couple of different places; much is driven from the larger military and defense primes looking ahead at their road- maps for the next two to three years and want- ing to make sure that there is a robust supply base to meet those needs. We're seeing a lot from the semiconductor side of the world as well, really pushing a lot of the boundaries of what we can do with even the A-SAP process. Matties: You mentioned the military window is about three years; is that typical or are they, in some cases, looking beyond that? Dunn: at's a very typical window. In some cases, we're working with people who currently design for high volume with A-SAP, they're looking to see the advantages of A-SAP, and the implementation for a lot of that will be three to four years. But I'm looking at roadmaps with OEMs now, that go out to 2028-29. It's definitely a long-range view with this technology. Shaughnessy: As Calumet said, they're hav- ing fun with it, but it's not exactly profitable. Is it more fun than profit right now? Does that dovetail with what you all are seeing? Dunn: I think that's a fair statement; it's defi- nitely fun. Matties: Obviously profit will have to be there for people to get excited, but it's a question of volume, not a question of technology. Dunn: at's correct. Matties: We certainly appreciate your insight on this topic. PCB007 PCBAA Chairman Travis Kelly discusses with Nolan Johnson the latest updates on the new association's activi- ties. The Printed Circuit Board Association of America is focused on advocating for manufacturing in America. Real Time with... IPC: Update From PCBAA

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