Issue link: https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1494936
26 PCB007 MAGAZINE I MARCH 2023 ture projects have stopped as the economy has slowed down. ere's more and more require- ment on mining, not on secondary recycled copper. Morgan: In the UK and Europe, a lot of copper was taken from old exchanges that were being ripped out. With the old copper, they burnt the insulation off. Not all producers did that, but those who did, that was their main feed style, with some that was recycled or used for cables. Of course, if you're not ripping it out, you've got to buy the new stuff. Goodwin: Exactly. Morgan: You've got t o m i n e i t a n d refine it, so that's a n o t h e r s t o r y. is is the same story we had with glass fabric producers. ey made glass for the electronics industry, but they also made it to ful- fill structural requirements for decorations for fabrics and wall coverings. In Europe, they've all stopped. ere isn't anyone producing for our industry anymore, and that's because our industry has higher technical demands, as well as higher quality demands. Defects are not accepted. Second, we pay a low price, so they all moved away from the "hard" business. We were giving them less margins compared to an "easy" business that gave them greater mar- gins. Isn't that the same as copper foil? Goodwin: Jason and I first started looking at this with giga factories and the rising demand for gigawatts and batteries. Around November 2017, I made my first post on LinkedIn about copper foil shortages, and everybody told me I was mad. But the price trend is most definitely up, and I think we'll be over $10,000 a ton again before we know it—maybe by 2024. Morgan: All it takes is a strike, maybe by tool or mine workers, or a situation like the one in Ukraine. e situation in Ukraine has caused problems with nickel and hydrochloric acid, for example. Goodwin: Well, I don't know if you know, but Warren Buffet recently made a huge invest- ment in Taiwan Semiconductor. Morgan: Oh, did he? Warren Buffett knows what he's doing, of course. It's a promising sign. Goodwin: He thinks we're at the bottom of the market, so the next thing you'll see is spec- ulators stepping in to get a piece of the mar- ket, and that'll drive the price up straight away. You know what? I follow him. We did some work in this space earlier with an article or two on copper mining, where we discussed how this works with all the different demands coalescing in this space. It's not just batteries, but also moving copper into wiring and cabling, because if you want to build out an EV infrastructure, it's going to require a hell of a lot of copper. Morgan: ere are busbars, yes. Goodwin: ere's mining, too. e concept of copper ore will reduce as time goes on, so refining costs will increase. Refining costs energy, and energy will not go down in price. A great article by Goldman Sachs that came out about two years ago said, "Copper is the New Oil," and they are not wrong. Goldman Sachs has not changed their opinion that this is a medium-to-long-term bull market. The situation in Ukraine has caused problems with nickel and hydrochloric acid, for example.