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18 PCB007 MAGAZINE I AUGUST 2021 it starts going up because it becomes lossy in- stantaneously. e customer will take a mea- surement and reply, "Your impedance is wrong because it measured 100 ohms." Yes, the trace becomes lossy at the source. You're adding im- pedance as you go along. You have to teach them that the only place you take the imped- ance is at what we call the launch point, exact- ly where it hits the board. at's the only place it's valid for this lossless test method. Many of engineers replied, "I didn't know that." en they appreciate the feedback. Holden: I just wonder; the electronics industry continues to grow and design tools are focused on helping people get designs faster. But we're not producing CAM engineers with the appro- priate experience to solve all these problems. As I said, we've gone from 3,000 to 290 shops, and if you look in our magazines at the number of ad- vertisements for CAM engineers, when does it come down to the fact that we have so few CAM engineers that the bottleneck is the front end? Korf: Here's a part of the problem. CAM so- ware is sold based on seats. If I'm a soware supplier, I make money every time I sell a seat. So, re-designing the soware to be more au- tomated works against the current sales mod- el because they'll sell fewer seats. We need a company to provide a fully automated tool generation process. is a fundamental prob- lem in the industry that conflicts with the cur- rent business model. Andy, going back to one of your original questions, my interest in digital twin is that it gets into automation. If they can really start to gather real-time process information, and compile it in a reasonable way, you can now update design rules on an intelligent basis in the company. en real-time updates can be integrated into automated CAM processes to improve yield more quickly. en if you extend this further, assuming relationships can be set up, those rules could be automatically passed back to the designer. Conceptually, it's on the right track. Shaughnessy: Right. Do you think IPC-2581 is the best data standard going forward for DFM? Korf: With 2581, there are two things. One is that it just transmits the data in an intelligent fashion. e second reason is that the new Rev C now has an embedded DFM function. You can embed the TQ questions in the data file along with the answers and store them in the data. Many times a fabricator receives a de- sign, especially in volume. "Here's a design, and we've been buying it for seven years. We're transferring to Asia." en a DFM is performed with a list of proposed modifications. It gets sent to the customer who says, "Oh, geez. e person who knows how to answer these died 10 years ago. We don't know what the right an- swers are." When the prior DFM reviews are embedded in the design, the knowledge will be transferred with the design and this prob- lem is eliminated. Holden: How many other companies are selling CAM soware other than ADIVA? Korf: I know five companies globally that sell CAM soware around the world. ere are probably 100 in China that I'm not aware of. Holden: Well, Ucamco keeps modernizing Ger- ber for us. I wish they'd kill Gerber, but you've got a company that's focused on supporting You have to teach them that the only place you take the impedance is at what we call the launch point, exactly where it hits the board.

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