Issue link: https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1489778
52 DESIGN007 MAGAZINE I JANUARY 2023 at the time end up commoditized. If you don't make those changes fast enough, you lose out to somebody who will make those changes. We're asking people to think about these things, to look for and actually consider the most efficient solution. Goodwin: We know that change takes time—it never happens as fast as you'd like. But if you don't start, it never happens at all. Morgan: e solution is not to say to people at Ventec, "Please hold more stock for me because of the ongoing logistics problem." at's not a solution—that's a stop-gap measure. We need to understand the demand pattern properly. I've reached this step many times with many different customers; it's a big step for many. Some commit, and do it, and do it very success- fully. If they're like, "Just put it on the table and we'll discuss it properly," then we can get some- where, but this is a conversation we need to keep having. Who makes these changes? Asian producers—because they think fresh and they are fresh. at kind of thinking leads to proper solutions. Johnson: What would Ventec's portfolio of products look like if you could solve this conun- drum; if you could make changes to materials, and get people to specify? Goodwin: Starting with the scarcity of raw mate- rials, I won't provide two-,three-, and even six- ounce copper foil on a commodity FR-4 when I've got high demand for high-end IMS materi- als, and high demand for military and aerospace polyimide that requires heavy coppers. I will put those raw materials on my niche specialty products. Morgan: We'd reserve those for flagship prod- ucts. Our operations in Asia are pretty opti- mized because we're supplying a market that understands that. e issue occurs when we're working with legacy businesses. It's very hard to find folks willing to change. Goodwin: Interestingly, the world thinks that polyimide is a U.S. business. Yes, polyimide in circuit boards is still a very big business in the U.S., but of the five major suppliers of poly- imide in the world—Ventec, AGC Nelco, Isola, EMC/Arlon and Hitachi, whichever way you want to call it—four of those five are Taiwan- ese- or Japanese-owned. e other is Ameri- can-owned, but its most recent U.S. factory has no treaters, because you can't get environmen- tal permits for treaters—no dirty processes in America anymore. Morgan: at's a big Asian footprint. Goodwin: What's American about the poly- imide business, if only one of the five suppliers is American-owned—but has no treaters in its newest U.S. factory? It's predominantly an Asian owned business now, and one in that group of five became Taiwanese-owned recently; it just started production of its polyimide in Taiwan. Morgan: It's very surprising. Goodwin: ey have a product running on a treater in Taiwan. Well, that's great; it's good for the business. But the production has got to be qualified by PCB manufacturers and OEMs, and if the doors are opening for qualification of a new production, they should be open to changing to a more cost- and resource-efficient warp direction and exchange 24" x 18" for 18" x 24". Johnson: is industry will need to ask itself some hard questions, and we covered quite a few of them here. Gentlemen, always a pleasure speaking with you. Morgan: Any time at all, Nolan. Great talking with you. DESIGN007