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60 The PCB Magazine • July 2017 Goldman: For the same things, I'm sure! O'Neil: There's pressure, as I think it probably is with any transition that ever comes out of the gate running. And so the whole town seems to be running. The voice of business is being heard. People are taking meetings. People are actively engaged in conversations. I think that is very promising. And there's hope that the two political parties are going to find a way to work together on some things. One consistent thing is that it's not going to be easy. Both sides are saying that. Goldman: Well, everybody that we talked with seemed to think that it's a good idea that they should all be talking to each other. And yet... O'Neil: Yes, it's consistent that both sides are pointing to the other as the part that needs to be changed. Goldman: "We'd like to work with them, but they don't want to work with us." O'Neil: And I think that the interesting thing is that's just kind of the way the town works. Things do get done. Things get done every week. Things got done already this week. Things got done last week. And the sensationalism isn't there when things actually get done. That stuff doesn't get really reported with the same vigor as the gridlock of the fight. Goldman: You always hear the bad news more than the good news. O'Neil: Absolutely. And we also had a meet- ing over at the EPA yesterday with the direc- tor, Scott Pruitt. The work the EPA does, they made a big impact over the last few decades on the environment, and I think in the last decade or so it has become more paperwork than ad - vancement. But the new mentality seems to be "we're going to continue to safeguard the envi- ronment. We're going to look for every oppor- tunity to do it in a smarter, more streamlined manner; basically, for every new piece of legis- lation or new rule that gets enacted something has to come off the books." I think that's smart. Goldman: I've always advocated that, in every- thing. O'Neil: There are so many rules and regs, and not just the EPA; the enforcement is almost im- possible and non-existent in many cases. Goldman: And it is sometimes arbitrary, as you know. O'Neil: Absolutely. I'd much rather have a set of fewer rules and regulations and have them made clear enough that they can be enforced with vigor. Then I think the impact would be greater than the volumes of misunderstood or unknown rules and regs that don't get enforced. Goldman: Currently, they tend to put more stock in paperwork than in actual work. O'Neil: Or impact. Goldman: It's the same with conflict minerals, for as much money as is spent on the paper- work, if that were all somehow channeled to the people being oppressed, wouldn't that be IMPACT Interviews Joe O'Neil chats with Kim Ford, Deputy Asst. Secretary for Mgmt. and Planning, U.S. Dept. of Education.