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26 DESIGN007 MAGAZINE I FEBRUARY 2020 Holden: You said you can have the perfect sche- matic and do all the simulations you want on the schematic. But you have to understand about noise and the physical layout because the physical layout is the thing that generates the noise, not necessarily the schematic. You can't get your arms fully around it until you physically lay it out and build it. Bogatin: You're right. In my Altium keynote over the last two years, I emphasized that the schematic identifies connectivity, tells you what components you're going to use, and how they're connected together, but the noise lies in the white space. There are also ide- al wires in the white space of the schematic, and that's where it's implemented in the lay- out. The noise is really about the layout. That's where I spent my career as well as that aspect of the electromagnetics of conductors and di- electrics. Holden: I keep wondering how Maxwell could have figured all of this out so long ago. Bogatin: Because I've spent a little time in an academic environment, I am constantly asked, "Why is there an SI program in a university? What's new and novel about that? Are you going to discover a fifth Maxwell equation?" It's all just about finding different ways of ap- plying Maxwell in different environments and structures. The challenge, especially with my students, is that you can learn Maxwell's equa- tions and solve the differential equations up to the wazoo with different boundary conditions. However, it still comes down to designing a circuit board and trying to figure out where to route this trace. Shaughnessy: When you look ahead the next couple of years, especially with these elec- tric vehicles and autonomous vehicles, do you think the EMI problems are going to continue to get worse? Bogatin: EMI is always going to be an issue with automotive because you have all of those real- ly big transient currents sloshing around there when the motor turns on. I heard one descrip- tion at a DesignCon keynote that today's cars are data centers on wheels. There is so much electronics in the cars that they're really data centers with computers and multiple microcon- trollers, including the autonomous ones, which are moving more and more toward using cam- eras as sensors. You can have half a dozen or a dozen cameras with HDMI data. The challeng- es aren't just for EMI but SI and the power de- livery as well through these vehicles. Matties: This has been really great, Eric. We appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Holden: Thank you, Eric. Bogatin: Thank you. It's always a pleasure. DESIGN007

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