Issue link: https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1210212
56 DESIGN007 MAGAZINE I FEBRUARY 2020 Matties: Approach may be an issue, though, as you were saying. Löwer: Yes. The idea is to use metrics on avail- able design data to proof cost reduction and performance improvements. My customers don't have data for this, or they haven't de- veloped a way to use this data. Mostly, HDI is used the following way. The PCB designer talks to the mechanical engineer or vice ver- sa, and together, they conclude that there's not enough space for the PCB, so they go for mi- crovias. That's the typical approach that I see. Matties: Do they also use landless vias? Löwer: I've never seen a company using land- less vias. Matties: It makes a lot of sense. Löwer: It does, especially if you see that the re- liability is better. Matties: Is this something that you would in- troduce to your clients to consider using? Löwer: I try to. Matties: What's the obstacle for something like landless vias? Löwer: It's a combination of, "We have nev- er done it like this. We have always done this way, and this way worked," and "We don't want to have any risk." Happy had some data that showed that landless vias are better in ev- ery way and more reliable, so why don't we use them? It's not a risk assessment; we're used to not using them. Also, I've noted that most suppliers are not keen on landless vias. I have the impres- sion that manufacturers are not sold on land- less vias yet. Only very few even consider the option on request. Until now, I did not pro- pose them to my customers, and my custom- ers didn't request them. I have to admit that I was not a strong proponent of suggesting one use landless vias, but especially the fact that nas sticking out of the car, but the best way to build an antenna is by putting it on the high- est place of your car. However, designers don't want it, so from my point of view, it's a mis- take, but is it? In the end, you want to have a beautiful car, so you have to find solutions the designer likes. Matties: When you deal with the customer, do they come at you with specific design parame- ters, or do they say, "This is the functionality," and expect you to utilize whatever? Löwer: It depends on the customer. In auto- motive, you get a pretty precise definition of what they want and what they have. My favor- ite example of this is a 30-page description of how a button has to be designed, including the feel, touch, and how much pressure you have to apply to it to activate it. Everything was de- fined to the smallest bit. On the other end of the spectrum are some of my customers who come from industrial applications. They say, "We have this and want this. Build it." That's about it. Matties: Do you use HDI? Löwer: Yes, but I've learned from Happy Hold- en's AltiumLive class that I'm doing it wrong. There's a limited amount of freedom. Happy told us we have to do it in a certain way. Then, we reference him and tell the customer to do it that way. There are times where I'm pretty sure he could do it, but it's not as easy for me. Matties: When Happy talked about the cost of your board going down with HDI, if it hasn't, then you're doing it wrong or your fabricator is… Löwer: Ripping you off. Matties: Is that the experience you've had? Have you seen a reduction in cost by using HDI? Löwer: No, but Happy has a lot of data to prove it. I will have to adjust my approach to get cost reductions.