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NOVEMBER 2022 I PCB007 MAGAZINE 29 Matties: So, when you have s omebo dy li ke your customer that you just mentioned w ith the 17-micron require- ment , and you don't have access, what do they do? How do they get their job done? Pedersen: They don't. They have to redesign the board. Matties: They haven't designed the board by the time they come to you? Pedersen: ey're waiting on designing to this level because they need to know that they can produce the boards. Matties: e big challenge with ultra HDI is in the bare board fabrication, right? Pedersen: Yes. Matties: So, where do material suppliers fit into the ultra HDI conversation? Are they driving it? Are they reacting to it? What's going on there? Pedersen: at's a good question. I would say that they are working together with the big names, the big players, to develop these mate- rials. Matties: Are there any final thoughts that you want to share regarding ultra HDI? Pedersen: We need to understand UHDI. We need to test, and we need to have test methods. How about the peel strength of the copper when you have such thin copper and new technologies? ose are the things we are working on within the IPC ultra HDI subcommittee. I have a focus group in my NCAB Techni- cal Council working with ultra HDI as well. We have quite a few of our U.S. colleagues there, and that's important for us that we are upfront and trying to understand as part of the development within IPC, the standards, and being part of the recent advanced pack- aging symposium to understand how the regulations are like the EU Chips Act, the U.S. CHIPS Act, and so on. It was extremely important for us to take part in that and to be part of the development of these emerging technologies. Matties: Nice. is is really interesting and edu- cational for me, for sure. ank you, Jan. Johnson: Yes, you've done a great job of putting into context all the different pieces. I appreci- ate that. Pedersen: Okay, thank you. PCB007 Kathy Nargi-Toth with Jan Pedersen at the Advanced Packaging Symposium.

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