Issue link: https://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1484263
NOVEMBER 2022 I PCB007 MAGAZINE 83 the brakes, and the guy behind them slams on the brakes a little bit more, and so on, and you have this chain reaction. at's exactly what is happening here. Johnson: It's not that it's a boom-or-bust situ- ation in our industry. How are laminate prices trending? Martin: Six years ago, I had just arrived in China, and we received this first notice of shortage from one supplier, and then the second, the third, and the fourth. I decided to contact the copper-clad laminate manufacturers directly; we contacted the top executives of the major laminate manufacturers in China and Taiwan. We started talking to the suppliers of our partner factories to see what was happening. Since then, we have had clear monitoring of what's going on in terms of pricing. Today, it is back to pre-pandemic level. I wouldn't say it's stable, but it's back to pre-pandemic level. Johnson: So, the drivers for unstable pricing are fluctuating demand, rather than their sup- ply chain? Martin: Yes, indeed. People will tell you that it's only related to copper. In fact, if you look at the standard 1.6-millimeter thickness, like any PCB copper-clad laminate, the real impact will be the resin, but they will move the price up and down based on demand. We monitor all the data we can on a listed company and even an unlisted company; we see the results, sales turnover, margin, etc. We have been doing these analyses for all the PCB and laminate manufacturers for a few years. Two years ago, it started going up like crazy and the profits from those copper-clad lami- nate manufacturers exploded. Multiply it by 10. Now they have gone back to a more normal way of making money, so right now, it's really demand and supply. It goes up every year, but it's fixed. Miralles: It's mainly demand because capacity is stable, but there are some industries where demand is decreasing. For example, for PCs or smartphones, the demand is weakening, so the supply is higher than the demand. at's why prices are also falling a little bit. Johnson: How has this affected your approved vendor list (AVL)? Martin: e AVL is the most important docu- ment. e president of ICAPE Group used to